EXP Systems Forum: Data sent to printer is huge

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sadab54
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Joined: 12 Aug 04
Posts: 4

Topic: Data sent to printer is huge
Posted: 12 Aug 04 at 10:47PM

When I create a PDF from Excel ( size 41K ) the PDF file seems to be small enough ( 37K ), but when printed, it send 1.4M of data to printer.

Printing from Acrobat Reader 6 to LaserJet printer attached to network.

Same file converted to PDF from Acrobat 4 ( 18K ) sends 101K of data to printer.

Can I reduce the amount of data sent to printer by changing some kind of configuration settings?

Thanks

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Michel_K17
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Joined: 25 Jan 03
Posts: 1673

Posted: 16 Aug 04 at 10:15PM

Unfortunately, we were not able to duplicate the problem you mentioned. These are the steps we followed, and the results we got:

PDF reDirect Pro

We created a small MS Word document, and created a PDF from it using PDF reDirect Pro, which was small (59K).
We then selected to print the PDF to a printer, and it sent 367K of data to the printer.

Acrobat v5.0.5 Distiller (Press Setting)

The PDF file created was larger (119KB).
When printing to the printer, 431KB of data was sent.

Acrobat v5.0.5 Distiller (Optimized Press Setting)

The PDF file was created by specifying 300dpi resolution and no web optimizer (which usually makes files smaller). The resulting PDF was small (21KB)
When printing to the printer, 546KB of data was sent. Note that we were printing from Adobe Reader 4, so we tried printing from Adobe Reader 5, and 636KB of data was sent to the printer. Then we tried Adobe Reader 6: it sent 256KB of data.

We are not sure why the data sent to the printer varies in size depending on which Reader was used, or why there are differences depending how the PDF was created. Part of the problem may lie with the type of printer you are using (Postscript or GPL) and which driver you use. Unfortunately, many of these factors are outside of our control.

Please let us know if you have any other specific information, or e-mail us with a copy of the file that is giving you trouble: we can perform additional testing if you wish.

Michel Korwin-Szymanowski
EXP Systems LLC

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sadab54
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: 12 Aug 04
Posts: 4

Posted: 18 Aug 04 at 10:36AM

Michel,

I am sending the file via email.

PDF's created on WinXP Pro.

Also, the printer is a HP LaserJet 5, attached to a network via a print server. Printer is using the standard windows drivers, as that is what most customers using our website would be using. I have tried the test printing to more than 5 different printers, all with similar results. The data sent to the printer on each one is multiple times larger than when the PDF is created with Acrobat.

Also, this may not be isolated to your program, and may be something with GhostScript itself (I assume your program uses GhostScript), as I have tried a few other programs on the net that use GhostScript and they give similar results.

Thanks

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Michel_K17
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Joined: 25 Jan 03
Posts: 1673

Posted: 18 Aug 04 at 11:28PM

Hi,

Thank you for the Excel file. I didn't know that Motorhomes could be so expensive!

   Using the file you sent, we created one PDF using PDF reDirect and another using Distiller. The files were opened in the PDF Reader and printed using various printers. Here are the results for the amount of data sent for each printer:

Generic Postscript Printer
(using latest MS Driver v5)
---------------------------
- PDF reDirect: 276 KB
- Distiller: 255 KB

HP LaserJet 5
-------------
- PDF reDirect: 253 KB
- Distiller: 112 KB

HP DeskJet 960c
---------------
- PDF reDirect: 151 KB
- Distiller: 119 KB

Brother HL-1440 Laser Printer
-----------------------------
- PDF reDirect: 227 KB
- Distiller: 256 KB

Epson Action Laser 1600
-----------------------
- PDF reDirect: 167 KB
- Distiller: 141 KB

   As you can see, the results vary from printer to printer. Why would the HP printer driver in particular generate a greater amount of data from a PDF file created by the Ghostscript engine is a mystery, one which cannot be solved without having access to the source code of the printer driver.

   Even more of a mystery is why our test generated much smaller files than what you are experiencing. Our testing was conducted on a Win XP Pro test machine. The printer drivers used were from our Win XP Disk.

   As you guessed, PDF reDirect does indeed rely on the Ghostscript engine (as detailled in the EULA). The new version (1.8) of PDF reDirect will be compatible with the following conversion engines:

   - GNU Ghostscript
   - AFPL Ghostscript
   - Acrobat Distiller

   This will give the user more flexibility in choosing an engine more to their liking. The GNU Ghostscript will be the default choice, but you will be able to use Distiller if you wish (obviously, this requires that you own Adobe Acrobat), or you can use AFPL Ghostscript which is a free download.

   Best regards,

Michel Korwin-Szymanowski
EXP Systems LLC

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Michel_K17
Moderator Group

Forum Administrator

Joined: 25 Jan 03
Posts: 1673

Posted: 18 Aug 04 at 11:39PM

Just another thought which may have a bearing on the problem you are experiencing:

- PDF reDirect Pro embeds the fonts in the PDF which then requires sending the font data to the printer when printing the PDF, thus making the amount of data being sent larger.

- PDF reDirect does NOT embed standard fonts (Arial, Times-Roman, and Courier), and is thus more likely to give results similar to other PDF writers that also use Ghostscript.

Which one are you using?

Michel Korwin-Szymanowski
EXP Systems LLC

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sadab54
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: 12 Aug 04
Posts: 4

Posted: 19 Aug 04 at 11:29PM

Same results -

From_PDF_reDirect.pdf file you sent sends 1.35MB data to printer.

From_Distiller.pdf file you sent sends 119KB data to printer.

I have not tried with a printer directly connected to computer,although I can't imagine how that would matter. I will try that from a workstation at work tomorrow and I will repost the results.

Just to recap:

Printers:
    HP LaserJet 5
    HP LaserJet 4si
    HP Color Laserjet 4600

All show excessive data sending to printer. The actual numbers vary, but it is always over 1MB.

Printing from Win XP Pro & Home, at least 3 different computers, all with default drivers from the XP installation.

Using Adobe Acrobat Reader 6.0.2 to print

I'll let you know if I find anything new tomorrow.

Thx

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Michel_K17
Moderator Group

Forum Administrator

Joined: 25 Jan 03
Posts: 1673

Posted: 21 Aug 04 at 1:42AM

We duplicated your results by upgrading our Adobe Reader from v6.0.1 to v6.0.2. We also tested v4.0.5 and v5.0.5 and they were OK. It seems like v6.0.2 is the only one that exhibits this behavior.

Here are the results:

HP LaserJet 5
-------------
- PDF reDirect: 1,584 KB
- Distiller: 127 KB

Interestingly, some of the other printers were also affected. For example, the Brother Laser Printer DECREASED by more than half to 90KB. The HP Deskjet 960c stayed the same.

We have submitted a bug report to Adobe.

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sadab54
Newbie
Newbie

Joined: 12 Aug 04
Posts: 4

Posted: 22 Aug 04 at 1:01AM

Thanks,

I was starting to think I was crazy.

I will verify results on Monday, as there are several workstations at work with older versions of reader, so I can test on those as well.

Also, I will be purchasing the Pro version shortly.

Do you know of any other good free pdf readers that I can offer to web users that are having this same problem printing out PDF's?

Thank you for all the help, and I hope Adobe fixes this bug soon.

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Michel_K17
Moderator Group

Forum Administrator

Joined: 25 Jan 03
Posts: 1673

Posted: 23 Aug 04 at 12:54AM

Yes - I know what you mean. There are just so many variables in trying to duplicate a problem like this. Sigh.

I (personnally) use PDF Reader v4.0.5 because it loads the most quickly. I like what Adobe has done with v6 in terms of improving the display of pictures on screen, but I still use v4.0.5 because it is so much faster.

I have not researched shareware viewers.

I will post any replies from Adobe back on this forum (nothing so far, but it was the weekend).

Good luck!

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Michel_K17
Moderator Group

Forum Administrator

Joined: 25 Jan 03
Posts: 1673

Posted: 23 Aug 04 at 11:25PM

The following was reported on the Adobe forum:

"This issue has been noted with various printers in the HP LaserJet family. LaserJet 5, 4si, 4550, 4600 have all demonstrated this behavior. Also, PDF's created with OpenOffice from both word processing and spreadsheet applications act similarly.

The official response from Adobe concerning the bug report was as follows:

"Thank you. Please note: You will not get a response to your bug submission."

We will test the next version of the Reader when it becomes available to see if the bug was resolved.

Edited by Michel_K17

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Using PDF reDirect
EXP Systems Forum : PDF reDirect : Using PDF reDirect

Author	Message
sadab54 Newbie Joined: 12 Aug 04 Posts: 4	Topic: Data sent to printer is huge Posted: 12 Aug 04 at 10:47PM
	When I create a PDF from Excel ( size 41K ) the PDF file seems to be small enough ( 37K ), but when printed, it send 1.4M of data to printer. Printing from Acrobat Reader 6 to LaserJet printer attached to network. Same file converted to PDF from Acrobat 4 ( 18K ) sends 101K of data to printer. Can I reduce the amount of data sent to printer by changing some kind of configuration settings? Thanks
	IP Logged

Michel_K17 Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: 25 Jan 03 Posts: 1673	Posted: 16 Aug 04 at 10:15PM
	Unfortunately, we were not able to duplicate the problem you mentioned. These are the steps we followed, and the results we got: PDF reDirect Pro We created a small MS Word document, and created a PDF from it using PDF reDirect Pro, which was small (59K). We then selected to print the PDF to a printer, and it sent 367K of data to the printer. Acrobat v5.0.5 Distiller (Press Setting) The PDF file created was larger (119KB). When printing to the printer, 431KB of data was sent. Acrobat v5.0.5 Distiller (Optimized Press Setting) The PDF file was created by specifying 300dpi resolution and no web optimizer (which usually makes files smaller). The resulting PDF was small (21KB) When printing to the printer, 546KB of data was sent. Note that we were printing from Adobe Reader 4, so we tried printing from Adobe Reader 5, and 636KB of data was sent to the printer. Then we tried Adobe Reader 6: it sent 256KB of data. We are not sure why the data sent to the printer varies in size depending on which Reader was used, or why there are differences depending how the PDF was created. Part of the problem may lie with the type of printer you are using (Postscript or GPL) and which driver you use. Unfortunately, many of these factors are outside of our control. Please let us know if you have any other specific information, or e-mail us with a copy of the file that is giving you trouble: we can perform additional testing if you wish.
	Michel Korwin-Szymanowski EXP Systems LLC
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sadab54 Newbie Joined: 12 Aug 04 Posts: 4	Posted: 18 Aug 04 at 10:36AM
	Michel, I am sending the file via email. PDF's created on WinXP Pro. Also, the printer is a HP LaserJet 5, attached to a network via a print server. Printer is using the standard windows drivers, as that is what most customers using our website would be using. I have tried the test printing to more than 5 different printers, all with similar results. The data sent to the printer on each one is multiple times larger than when the PDF is created with Acrobat. Also, this may not be isolated to your program, and may be something with GhostScript itself (I assume your program uses GhostScript), as I have tried a few other programs on the net that use GhostScript and they give similar results. Thanks
	IP Logged

Michel_K17 Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: 25 Jan 03 Posts: 1673	Posted: 18 Aug 04 at 11:28PM
	Hi, Thank you for the Excel file. I didn't know that Motorhomes could be so expensive! Using the file you sent, we created one PDF using PDF reDirect and another using Distiller. The files were opened in the PDF Reader and printed using various printers. Here are the results for the amount of data sent for each printer: Generic Postscript Printer (using latest MS Driver v5) --------------------------- - PDF reDirect: 276 KB - Distiller: 255 KB HP LaserJet 5 ------------- - PDF reDirect: 253 KB - Distiller: 112 KB HP DeskJet 960c --------------- - PDF reDirect: 151 KB - Distiller: 119 KB Brother HL-1440 Laser Printer ----------------------------- - PDF reDirect: 227 KB - Distiller: 256 KB Epson Action Laser 1600 ----------------------- - PDF reDirect: 167 KB - Distiller: 141 KB As you can see, the results vary from printer to printer. Why would the HP printer driver in particular generate a greater amount of data from a PDF file created by the Ghostscript engine is a mystery, one which cannot be solved without having access to the source code of the printer driver. Even more of a mystery is why our test generated much smaller files than what you are experiencing. Our testing was conducted on a Win XP Pro test machine. The printer drivers used were from our Win XP Disk. As you guessed, PDF reDirect does indeed rely on the Ghostscript engine (as detailled in the EULA). The new version (1.8) of PDF reDirect will be compatible with the following conversion engines: - GNU Ghostscript - AFPL Ghostscript - Acrobat Distiller This will give the user more flexibility in choosing an engine more to their liking. The GNU Ghostscript will be the default choice, but you will be able to use Distiller if you wish (obviously, this requires that you own Adobe Acrobat), or you can use AFPL Ghostscript which is a free download. Best regards,
	Michel Korwin-Szymanowski EXP Systems LLC
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Michel_K17 Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: 25 Jan 03 Posts: 1673	Posted: 18 Aug 04 at 11:39PM
	Just another thought which may have a bearing on the problem you are experiencing: - PDF reDirect Pro embeds the fonts in the PDF which then requires sending the font data to the printer when printing the PDF, thus making the amount of data being sent larger. - PDF reDirect does NOT embed standard fonts (Arial, Times-Roman, and Courier), and is thus more likely to give results similar to other PDF writers that also use Ghostscript. Which one are you using?
	Michel Korwin-Szymanowski EXP Systems LLC
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sadab54 Newbie Joined: 12 Aug 04 Posts: 4	Posted: 19 Aug 04 at 11:29PM
	Same results - From_PDF_reDirect.pdf file you sent sends 1.35MB data to printer. From_Distiller.pdf file you sent sends 119KB data to printer. I have not tried with a printer directly connected to computer,although I can't imagine how that would matter. I will try that from a workstation at work tomorrow and I will repost the results. Just to recap: Printers: HP LaserJet 5 HP LaserJet 4si HP Color Laserjet 4600 All show excessive data sending to printer. The actual numbers vary, but it is always over 1MB. Printing from Win XP Pro & Home, at least 3 different computers, all with default drivers from the XP installation. Using Adobe Acrobat Reader 6.0.2 to print I'll let you know if I find anything new tomorrow. Thx
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Michel_K17 Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: 25 Jan 03 Posts: 1673	Posted: 21 Aug 04 at 1:42AM
	We duplicated your results by upgrading our Adobe Reader from v6.0.1 to v6.0.2. We also tested v4.0.5 and v5.0.5 and they were OK. It seems like v6.0.2 is the only one that exhibits this behavior. Here are the results: HP LaserJet 5 ------------- - PDF reDirect: 1,584 KB - Distiller: 127 KB Interestingly, some of the other printers were also affected. For example, the Brother Laser Printer DECREASED by more than half to 90KB. The HP Deskjet 960c stayed the same. We have submitted a bug report to Adobe.
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sadab54 Newbie Joined: 12 Aug 04 Posts: 4	Posted: 22 Aug 04 at 1:01AM
	Thanks, I was starting to think I was crazy. I will verify results on Monday, as there are several workstations at work with older versions of reader, so I can test on those as well. Also, I will be purchasing the Pro version shortly. Do you know of any other good free pdf readers that I can offer to web users that are having this same problem printing out PDF's? Thank you for all the help, and I hope Adobe fixes this bug soon.
	IP Logged

Michel_K17 Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: 25 Jan 03 Posts: 1673	Posted: 23 Aug 04 at 12:54AM
	Yes - I know what you mean. There are just so many variables in trying to duplicate a problem like this. Sigh. I (personnally) use PDF Reader v4.0.5 because it loads the most quickly. I like what Adobe has done with v6 in terms of improving the display of pictures on screen, but I still use v4.0.5 because it is so much faster. I have not researched shareware viewers. I will post any replies from Adobe back on this forum (nothing so far, but it was the weekend). Good luck!
	IP Logged

Michel_K17 Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: 25 Jan 03 Posts: 1673	Posted: 23 Aug 04 at 11:25PM
	The following was reported on the Adobe forum: "This issue has been noted with various printers in the HP LaserJet family. LaserJet 5, 4si, 4550, 4600 have all demonstrated this behavior. Also, PDF's created with OpenOffice from both word processing and spreadsheet applications act similarly. The official response from Adobe concerning the bug report was as follows: "Thank you. Please note: You will not get a response to your bug submission." We will test the next version of the Reader when it becomes available to see if the bug was resolved. Edited by Michel_K17
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